www.iFourWinns.com

Hi All
I am new on this forum !! I am the owner of a FW Vista 268 year 2000 with Volvo Penta 5.0 Gi. I use to cruise in the south Riviera ( France).
I inspected and saw water in the bilge (the engine compartment). I clean up and drain it completely manually but water comes back again with some oil deposit.
This summer I changed the chain of the anchor which was fully rusty and used to clean up and rinse with raw water after each cruising.
I have seen the water drain through the hole but it may be possible that some remains in the bilge.
Can water circulate from the compartment where the anchor is stored to the engine compartment at the back ?

Thanks in advance.
Olivier

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Olivier
Vista 268 - Year 2000

Did you check to see if your sea water pump is leaking or your circulating pump?

I found my circulating pump had rusted completely and was leaking down the front of the engine.

Whaou !
I did not check it yet but I did not see any water leak there ? Should I disassemble the circulating pump to see a potential water leak?
Thanks

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Olivier
Vista 268 - Year 2000

In my case it was pretty obvious, there were constant drips from the engine when it was running.

Do you know if it is rain water or sea water? That will help start the search. Not sure about the 2 bilge compartments connecting on a 268. I believe they did connect on my 258.
I have been dealing with leaks for a few years, just when I patch one, another one crops up. So aggravating...
I would start by using a shopvac to clear out all the water then take a flashlight and look at every inch of the engine compartment. You might be able to track it from a mold trail or water line.

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--2002 3880 Regal Flybridge | Twin Merc 8.1HO **Seven**
--2003 AB 13 VST Console Inflatable | Tohatsu 40hp TLDI **Phish'n ski**
--310 Mercury Inflatable | 1982 9.9 Johnson

Water should not be draining from the anchor rode compartment to the bilge. If that is the case you may need to empty the compartment, clean it thoroughly and re-seal it. Thre are two drain holes for that compartmentthat both drain overboard.

The 268 has a forward bilge and an aft bilge. The two bilges are separated at the forward end of the aft cabin. Everything under the aft cabin and in the engine compartment is in the aft bilge.

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Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

Hello
Sorry for my delayed response. I believe it is raw water. I didn't taste it as it is a bit oily (deposit) and that is what worried me as well. So I have to inspect where it comes from. I hope that is not a leak of the oil pan. My boat is always (moored) in the harbor.
I saw the last day of my summer holiday that the oil filter was loosened! Strange but that could explains why this oil but not sufficient as each year some deposit are in the bilge.
My father is living near to the marina and he will do some investigation. If you have some tips, advices, guidance that would be very helpful.

I plan to check (and clean or change) elbows and Manifolds and I am looking for tightening torque for both. It is a V8 5.0 Gi Volvo Penta ( GM block)

Thank you again for your help
Daydreamer

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Olivier
Vista 268 - Year 2000

Can’t comment on the bilges on that boat but if the front circulation pump is going bad you can tell by it starting to make noise (grinding noises) and leaking water from behind the pulley. These are easy and inexpensive to replace but if the engine uses raw water or open cooling you must use the marine version. The Volvo raw water impeller is certainly known to leak. These can be quite expensive to replace. The oil filter issue, I hope you have a remote mount because they are tough to get at in the standard mount position. The remote mount lines have been known to leak as well. There was actually a recall on these in certain years. Finally I assume you are in salt water and those manifolds and elbows will have to be replaced every 5-7 years based on my experience unless it has the Volvo neutra salt flush system or something similar. Do you see rust stains coming from the joint between the manifold and elbow? A warning sign!
The issue with salt water cooled manifolds is that with the wet joint design that Volvo used, if the sealing surfaces of both the manifold and elbows get corroded and pitted the gaskets will no longer seal. Then the risk is that you can get salt water dripping down the center riser exhaust opening which can get into a cylinder via an open exhaust valve. This can corrode valve seats and cause low compression and rough running, which you want to avoid.
Volvo Penta re-designed the exhaust gaskets that go between the manifold and elbows and listed specs for tightening torque, if you do a search for 'revised Volvo Penta exhaust gaskets' you'll probably find the service bulletin on them.

I installed V/P style exhaust on my old OMC (the original exhaust components have long since gone NLA) and used Barr aftermarket for the parts. They are cast in USA and are of good quality. Here's a pic of what new manifold sealing surfaces look like:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xduba114xng7e ... p.JPG?dl=0

also note the use of 2 longer headless bolts (just cut the heads off and make a slot in the face of it with a hacksaw so you can turn them out) to line up the heavy manifolds and gaskets. You take 2 of the new bolts, go to the hardware store and buy longer bolts of the same thread size and pitch. Then cut off the heads, and cut a slot for a screwdriver in the area where the head was. To install, you screw these 2 headless bolts in the first and last bolt holes. Slide the manifold gasket on and the manifold. Then install all the other bolts. Finally use the screwdriver to remove the 2 headless bolts and install the last 2. Much easier that way.

I used the Barr gaskets coated on both sides with Permatex Aviation sealer. So far so good.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Hi LouC
Thanks for your valuable advice. The cooling system is based on salt water and yes I have saw some rust stains in the manifold and elbow. These pieces has been changed 5 years ago. I disassembled one elbow 2 years ago (as I had some issue to start engine when it was hot) and cleaned up. I though that could be a problem of cooling system and found that this elbow was warmer than the other. It was not so rusty at this time. Anyway I plan to change them next season and I am thinking about to purchase originals from Volvo Penta or what we call "adaptable". Obviously the cost is one element to take into consideration but not the main driver for decision. I heart a lot about with good and bad points in the both cases so not obvious to have a real, neutral point of view. What are the risks ?

PS: the temperature problem has been solved !! it was due to cut electric wire (from the thermostat in the housing ) to the ECM.

Thank you
Daydreamer

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Olivier
Vista 268 - Year 2000

Well if you are asking if you should use genuine Volvo Penta exhaust vs what we call in the USA aftermarket, it all depends on the quality of aftermarket. I used the Barr Marine aftermarket exhaust kit which included the manifolds, elbows, gaskets and bolts. Price commonly sold for is $720 USD. The original Volvo Penta is probably at least $1200 USD or more. Based on my experience with the Barr exhaust, I think it is good enough quality that you are not taking a risk and especially because you have to replace them approx. every 5 seasons where you are just like us. The only thing I'd add is the paint quality is not great, so before installing them brush on a coat of Rustoleium or other good rust inhibiting paint. Mine have been on for 2 years and they still look good. I did a top end overhaul back in '17 (remanufactured cyl heads, new gaskets, rebuilt carburetor replaced fuel pump etc) and had to replace the exhaust anyway as I was on year 5 of my old exhaust, did not want to take a chance on it after having done all that work to put things right again. I can get good advice here from people who run marine supply shops, they will not order parts that have caused others trouble (GLM) but will steer you towards ones of better quality (Barr). I have heard of problems with sealing the gasket surface with GLM exhaust due to less than good finish quality of the sealing surfaces. The sealing surfaces on the Barr exhaust was excellent. That's the main risk of aftermarket parts.
Usually one elbow may be slightly warmer than the other, on mine both manifolds and elbows at idle are approx. 85*F the only part warmer is the aluminum exhaust pipe connecting the elbow and the Y pipe on the port side which gets to about 120* or so.

The main risk with old exhaust is salt water leaking in around the joint between the manifold and elbow, this can put salt water in a cyl which if not caught quickly will cause major damage. My original OMC one piece manifold/elbow assembly was great in this regard, it was cast as all one piece and I never had leaks from those, but they have been NLA for years. So I had to switch to what both OMC and Volvo used on later engines....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Hello
So yes I changed it with adaptable in 2020 but there are already some rusted points at the elbow side. Back to the problem of water I have spoken 3 years ago, I changed this summer the raw water pump. I saw again water in the bilge. I deep dive and noticed that some water leak at the head water. (rusted as well). So I took out it.
Now I still have water but it is rainwater. it is embarrassing as it is closed to the battery location. Does someone has experienced this problem on a four winns Vista 268 . Mine is with the arch.
Thank you

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Olivier
Vista 268 - Year 2000

Verify you don't have a leak around the shift and/or drive shaft boot. You have to feel around behind the engine and see if there is any water.
You may have to trim the motor all the way up and check and then all the way down.
When was the last time they were changed?
Also, you can end up with a stick or something punching a hole (I have had this happen on a 1 year old boot).

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The Dance II
2007 278 Vista
6.2L Mercruiser

Especially if you are in salt water any time you see water in the bilge and you know that it didn't rain, this means there could be a leak from the transom mount assembly into the bilge. Common leak points are the bellows for the driveshaft, steering pin seal, and for the Mercruiser drives, the shift cable bellows. Pulling the drive once a season is a good maintenance habit to catch problems before they become very expensive. I've been doing that for 20 years and have been able to avoid expensive problems with the drive system by doing so. In fact the manufacturers do recommend this. Once you've done it a few times it's easy.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

You mentioned that you thought it might be rain water. From past posts on this site, I understand that rain water might be able to pass between the canvas cockpit cover or enclosure and the lower ends of the radar arch. Water runs down hill on the canvas toward the radar arch. my 268 does not have an arch. If it is sea water, another area for possible leakage is between the outdrive transom shield and the transom. If so, you might luck out by trying to tighten the bolts or nuts in the engine room that hold the inner and outer transom shield parts in place. There is a gasket between the outside of the transom and the transom shield. Leakage here could allow water into the wood core in the transom and cause some wood rot. Correcting this means pulling the outdrive and engine to remove the transom shield and the bracket on the inside of the transom that supports the rear of the engine. Another band aid method might be to clean the outside of the transom and transom shield and seal that joint with 3M 5200. You should not see water moving between the front and rear bilges.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon